Our First Rodeo

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Hey, everyone. Welcome to the very first episode of How I Met Your Data.

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I'm Sandy Estrada, and together with my colleague and podcast partner in crime,

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Anjali Banzal, we're about to take you on a journey that's a little bit different

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from what you might expect.

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You see, Anjali and I have been working in the data industry for nearly 25 years each.

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During this time, we've learned a lot about the human side of data work.

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So our focus here will be on the stories that happen behind the scenes,

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the topics that go beyond the right architecture, the right tooling,

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the je ne sais quoi that really drives the success or challenges that make data work so very unique.

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To us, it's all about the people, their unique methods, and how different organizations

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work together or sometimes don't to achieve their data goals.

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So on today's episode, we're not just introducing ourselves,

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we're sharing our vision for the podcast.

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And of course, once we get started, it won't just be Anjali and I at the mic.

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We envision a podcast as a window to the the vibrant data community that we know and love.

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Therefore, we're planning to showcase seasoned data leaders,

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advisors, and software executives with unique voices, compelling experiences, and perspective.

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The thing I'm most excited about is that I get to share this great data community with you.

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Whether you're new to data, an experienced professional, or simply curious about

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it, we've got you covered.

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Sit back, relax, come along for the ride, and without further ado,

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let's get this party started.

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Music.

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How are you? I'm good. I'm good. What's the name of this podcast?

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How I Met Your Data. How I Met Your Data, yeah. Why did we call it that?

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I don't remember. Do you?

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Well, we are consultants and we meet our clients' data often.

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They're kind of in strange places, right? I get a lot of data in my day.

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You want to make this into the SNL thing? When I hooked up this microphone,

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that's exactly what I thought of. What did your data do last night?

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Yeah, there you go. Do you know what your data did last night?

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What are your dirty data secrets?

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I'm not editing that out, by the

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way. I'm staying in. Yeah, that's why we called it How I Met Your Data.

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I'm super excited about this. I've wanted to do this for a long time,

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and I'm realizing I'm better one-on-one chatting with folks than in a larger audience and group.

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I find that I love that interaction, bouncing off ideas off of somebody, et cetera.

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So I know you and I have had many, many conversations, and it always goes from one thing to another.

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So it'd be fun to do this with you and then also to include others outside of

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our firm to other data leaders that we meet and know and bring them to the table

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and see how we interact with them. So that would be fun.

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Yeah, oh, for sure. For sure. And when you first came to me with this idea, I was like, absolutely.

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Like we've got so much we can talk about, but I am also really excited in hearing,

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you know, some of our friends, clients, and peers' challenges and what keeps

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them up at night and what they're excited about in the data world that's just ever-changing.

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And, you know, so I think we're going to have a lot of fun.

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Yeah, this should be a good time. So Anjali, I've known you for a little over a year now.

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Do you want to tell our audience who you are, your background,

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a little bit about yourself?

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Sure, sure. So I'm Anjali Bansal. I am the Global Lead for Data Governance and Trust with Cervelo.

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You know, I came into kind of this crazy world of data thinking at a school

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that I really wanted to be a true technologist.

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So I spent, you know, spent my early career doing Java development when Java

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was the new cool object-oriented programming language.

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I hated Java. I hated Java, but go on.

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Well, I think most did, right?

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Especially in the early days, but I did it because I was good at it,

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not because I actually genuinely enjoyed it, which actually led me on this path.

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Yeah. So, you know, Java development into just asking a lot of questions of why,

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you know, being the, you know, the, the junior developer on the team,

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I was the first one to get the worst requirements and, you know,

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the first one to hear when they didn't work.

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So I started asking a lot of questions of why do you want to do this?

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You know, what are you trying to achieve?

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And then just over the years that that's kind of helped me leapfrog through these different,

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you know, of different facets of the technology world as we went from building

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stuff and not really thinking about who we were building it for and taking this

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mentality of build it and they will come and nobody came to,

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you know, what are we trying to help our customers,

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our clients, our peers try to achieve and talk about what data will get them there.

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And from there, having been on the consulting side and professional services side for so long.

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I've had so many difficult conversations where we believed our path was the right path.

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Then we did something that in our gut we knew was the wrong way to go. Well, we did it anyways.

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Yep. And then suddenly had to have this really difficult conversation about

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what was done, why it was done, but then why it was the wrong thing to do.

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And so just having enough of those conversations and having enough heartache

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and and sleepless nights about preparing for the conversation and then trying

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to figure out the right remediation path, I just started asking,

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what else could we have done?

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What can we do better? There's got to be a better way.

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And at the time I started asking those questions, there wasn't really something

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that was called data governance.

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We just need a better approach. But just over the years, honing that curiosity

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and honing that desire to just stabilize our approach and have an easier way of doing things really,

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you know, developed my kind of data governance background and approach.

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That's great. That's beautiful. Yeah, I like that story.

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And as you were talking, I thought about a couple other episodes we could have

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and themes that we could put in here,

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because it's your whole point of those moments when our clients,

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where we're doing things that we know are probably not going

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to work and we do them anyway because we're

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either told to or there's no other way because

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the you know there's other challenges within an organization and their culture

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and whatever it may be that limits our ability to do the right thing and i think

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that that's that's an interesting conversation because it's either an interesting

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conversation with a bunch of

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other consultants just to kind of get a a feel for or how do you do that?

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And where, like, what, what are we doing something wrong? Right.

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I think culturally I can go on a whole tangent here, but I won't.

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But the, my, my point is that I think there's so many paradigms in terms of

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how like organizations work with consultants, how organizations work internally,

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because there's always internal consultants.

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I find that fascinating besides work. I know you're an avid pickleball player.

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You do some other dragon boat thing. a little bit about your fun times. Oh my gosh, of course.

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So yeah, so I am a pickleball player.

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I dragged my husband into this crazy world of pickleball as well.

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We try to play a couple tournaments a year. So we actually have one coming up.

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So we're doing mixed doubles.

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Defending our gold medal from the last tournament. Gotta win that.

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Yeah, exactly. You gotta bring home the hardware. And on the same day,

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I'm also doing a women's doubles tournament and defending our bronze title,

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but hoping for a different spot on the podium. I do dragon boat.

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So one of my girlfriends, I've known her for 20 something years.

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She was an avid dragon boater, had been trying to get me to join her team and

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I always had an excuse. use.

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And then she just decided to start her own team. That's great.

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And yeah, it was awesome. But she needed a number two.

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She needed a co-captain. And I just couldn't say no.

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And here we are going into our fourth season as a team.

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That sounds like a lot of fun. I think I would really enjoy that.

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I've seen pictures of those kind of events.

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And I always just like a blast. If I'm not down, we might need a sub.

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Yeah. You tell me, I'll be there.

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But you also have a lot of hobbies. And I think that's who I am too.

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Like I have a lot of hobbies.

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I pick them up. I drop them off. I pick them up again. And I stay with them for a while.

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But I definitely collect hobbies

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as well. So I think that's one of the things that we had in common.

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Yeah, for sure. So what is your favorite hobby right now?

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At the moment, I don't know what the terminology for it is. Reef keeping? I think it's called.

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So I have a, some people say it's not a hobby, but once you get into it,

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you're like, no, this is definitely a full-time job.

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So it's a, I have a saltwater tank. It's small.

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And the thing with saltwater is that you're constantly testing the water.

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It has to have very specific parameters for calcium, magnesium, phosphate.

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I mean, it goes on and on, but I became a scientist. I didn't even know it. It is time consuming.

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I'm testing that thing every Every couple of days, I have coral in there.

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What's that Pixar movie, Finding Nemo? So there's a character.

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Have you watched that movie?

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Yeah, there's a character, Darla, who comes up to the tank, and she terrifies

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the fish at the dentist's office.

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And Darla's here, and they start hiding. So my wife calls me Darla. Oh, no.

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Because I'm constantly tinkering with the tank and looking at it,

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and she thinks I'm terrifying the coral and the fish. I'm going to have to do pictures.

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Yeah. For sure. But you also like to travel. So what do you do with your coral

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while you're traveling?

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Good question. My mother comes in and there's no testing, obviously,

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but my mother comes in and feeds.

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So she has it down. There's something for her to do. So she enjoys that.

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Cool. Well, how did she get into that, though?

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My cousin, when I was growing up in his house,

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even in high school, he pulled out a side of the wall on his headboard where

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the wall is, pulled out a side of the wall, put a fish tank in there and built,

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I think, a hundred gallon fish tank as his headboard.

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But I still remember that. And always, from that moment forward,

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I was like, I want a fish tank. That's amazing.

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Mine's not as impressive. It's 16 gallons. It's very small. I'm not allowed to get anything bigger.

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So for now, for now, petitions are in. We'll see what happens.

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Now, did you have a waterbed as well? I did, actually. How did you know that?

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And I both had waterbeds. That's pretty funny.

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Yeah, I think it was a 90s thing, though. I think that having a waterbed was

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definitely a 90s, 80s, but definitely 90s.

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But yeah, so in terms of me and who I am, so I, I don't know,

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I'm, I don't even know what I do anymore. more.

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I started my career as a Java. Well, I got hired as a Java developer.

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And that's why I said I hate Java. So I got hired as a Java developer,

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my first job out of college. And I remember we had like a month and of training.

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And within the first few days, I literally got up out of class and went to go

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talk to the hiring manager and said, I can't do this, which was in retrospect,

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I think about that all the time. And I'm just like, I can't believe I did that.

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Like I totally went up there and I was like, I'm not doing this.

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Like I want to do something else.

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So you guys have JavaScript or something here and literally talked myself into another job.

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So within just a few days of hiring, they, they, they changed my team and I

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was in a much, we had hundreds of Java developers and maybe that was part of

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it. I didn't want to be part of the crowd.

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I don't like being part of a crowd. So I became a JavaScript developer,

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you know, and back then it was 2000, but late in the a year.

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So right before the crash, the dot-com bust back then.

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And that job definitely landed me a job with a consulting firm that handled data and analytics.

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And back then when you're building data and analytics solutions,

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everything was custom digital.

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You had to code every single widget on the page, where the widget is.

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It was all custom digital pages, right? Things you do today with like React, right? So-

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I did that for a while. But in that consulting firm, it was all data analytics,

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budgeting, forecasting systems, all financial, mostly financial data.

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And so I learned that I learned budgeting, forecasting while I was there.

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And then I went off to financial services for a number of years.

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And I just constantly just, my thing was, what am I passionate about?

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What am I interested in? Almost like a hobby in data and analytics.

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So I went from coding to caring about how teams reform, to caring how projects

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are run, to caring about.

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So my job always changed depending on what I cared about.

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And since joining where I am now, Cervelo is the same thing.

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My focus changes depending on what I care about.

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So right now, I'm really focused on helping our organization and their clients,

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primarily our clients, figure out what are the right strategies, how can we help them?

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So I'm always at kind of the front end of that conversation,

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really driving where we help our clients and how we help them and ensuring that

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they understand how we can, you know, help them overall.

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So yeah, that's my short end of the story. But yeah, I thought I was going to

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be an accountant when I went to college. So I don't know how.

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How did you make that leap right from your business background,

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your accounting background into starting with technology.

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Yeah, I mean, it happened in college.

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I changed my focus while I was there. I think we had to take a marketing statistics

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class or statistics, yeah, sophomore year.

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And I was probably the top student in my class. I loved statistics. I loved data. I was like,

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hooked. And I love the problems, right? How do you cluster your prospects?

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How do you target your audience correctly, et cetera, and market to them well?

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And those business problems really resonated with me. And I was always fascinated by it.

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But more importantly, I was fascinated by the data and the statistics and the structure.

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And my marketing professor pulled me aside.

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I still remember this. He pulls me aside and he goes, what's your focus?

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And I I was like accounting. And he's like, why?

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Oh no. And it's like accounting. He's like, why? I'm like, ah,

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and he goes, have you thought about, he's like, you're doing really well here.

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Have you thought about management information systems? And I said,

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no, I haven't thought about that. Absolutely not.

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I'm not technical. And he goes, yeah, but you like this class.

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You're pretty technical. And I had no idea of what I was doing was kind of pseudocode

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and, you know, problem solving and all those, those capabilities that you pick

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up and you don't even realize you're doing them at the time.

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And he, you know, and I said to him, why not marketing?

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And he said, well, what's your background? And at the time, I mean,

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I went to that school on grants and scholarships. I had no money.

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I had told him about my background. And he basically said, if you go into marketing,

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you're never going to make money, go into management information systems.

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I promise you this is a future.

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And quite frankly, you know, looking back 28 years later, he was right, Right.

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Right. Like this is the future and we're at the precipice of another technology

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change in data and digital in the way we interact with it all. So thank you.

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I forgot his name and I wish I remembered it. We're in the middle of it.

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We're in a cusp of something new again.

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So yeah, I was thinking about that as well. That could be another podcast episode

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for us in terms of have we seen this before? Because I feel like we have.

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Did you hear about Devon?

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So Devin is the first AI that you can tell it that you need like a certain type

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of code and it will write it for you. Oh, okay. Yeah.

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So people are freaking out over that. I think it's pretty funny.

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I'm just like, it's okay.

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It's okay. I used to build dashboards from scratch and now Power BI exists.

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So I think we've seen that before.

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We got to find other things that we can add value with other than coding.

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But yeah, there's a whole machine against that. Right.

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So yeah oh for sure like i mean we've absolutely

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seen this before that's why i ended up as a java

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developer there you go and not not

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c++ right so so it's

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funny because over time i've said you know my background my my educational background

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is you know i have my an undergraduate degree in comp sci and math and a master's

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degree in software engineering none of which i use but as things were or converting

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over from customized code,

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a new build every time to low code, no code options.

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I'm like, this degree was a waste of paper. Yeah, but still,

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I mean, we haven't completely been able to reallocate people's skills to not

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have the need for software development or software architects or anything like that.

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Yeah, that's still gonna exist. It's just gonna take a different form.

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Yeah. That's all. It's nothing to be afraid of.

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Amazing. So let's change our focus here.

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How about talking about our first podcast or second episode?

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Actually, this is our officially our first wild, wild ride.

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So we'll see how that goes. But I think our, our first real episode will be around.

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I think the title was data by the people for the people for people. people. Yeah.

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Yeah. So I'm like super excited about that conversation and we'll think about

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whether we want to tackle it or bring another to the fold.

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Yeah. That would be interesting for sure.

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I think that, you know, as we evolve this podcast, it will definitely be dynamic.

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Like this conversation has been not scripted. I don't want to have any scripting

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of this or preceding. If people can't need questions ahead of time,

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I'm happy to give it to them, but I don't want to to know their answers until we get in the room.

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So we can deal with that that way.

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And let's have a dynamic conversation, a real conversation.

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Again, just like you, I'd much rather have an organic conversation with true

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reactions and feedback,

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as opposed to like kind of going through a scripted experience where it almost

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feels like it's too, too structured and too boxed in.

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Yeah, I don't do well in structured and boxed in. I also don't do extremely

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well organically. but I'll figure it out.

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I'll figure it out. It's, it's okay. It's okay.

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Yeah. I'm so excited about this. I'm glad. I'm happy to go on that journey with

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you. I think that you're a great thought partner. So very excited.

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Oh, same here. Same here. I think we're going to have a lot of fun.

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Learn a little something along the way too, which will be great.

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Yeah. And if you're still listening and at the end of this episode,

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thank you for listening along.

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We would love some feedback. Go ahead and give it to us. But yeah.

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And if you're interested in being on the podcast, reach out to myself or Anjali,

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and we'll definitely throw you on the list.

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We're super excited about this and I hope you stick with us. Thank you. Thank you.

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Music.