"Unveiling the New Chapter: Meet the Co-hosts of 'How I Met Your Data'"

WEBVTT

00:00:00.948 --> 00:00:04.148
Hi, I'm Anjali Bansel, and this is How I Met Your Data.

00:00:04.428 --> 00:00:07.828
If you've been with us for a while, you know that this show has always been

00:00:07.828 --> 00:00:09.628
about the real stories behind the data.

00:00:09.868 --> 00:00:14.228
The big ideas, the tough lessons, the messy middle, and the humans at the heart

00:00:14.228 --> 00:00:16.228
of it all. And that's not changing.

00:00:16.808 --> 00:00:21.888
What is changing is we're growing. This season, I'm joined by a few new voices,

00:00:22.428 --> 00:00:27.348
sharp minds, bold perspectives, and a shared belief that data is only as powerful

00:00:27.348 --> 00:00:31.088
as the people who use it. You're going to love what they bring to the table.

00:00:31.308 --> 00:00:36.628
We'll talk data leadership, AI disruption, culture shifts, transformation fatigue,

00:00:36.828 --> 00:00:39.928
and why the work never really ends, but why that's okay.

00:00:40.348 --> 00:00:44.728
Welcome to the next chapter of How I Met Your Data. Let's meet our new co-hosts.

00:00:46.268 --> 00:00:51.508
Welcome, Karen and Janaid. I was so excited when I spoke to both of you and

00:00:51.508 --> 00:00:56.208
you were really on board to join me on this journey and continue the conversation.

00:00:56.208 --> 00:00:58.668
So, Karen, Junaid, welcome.

00:00:58.968 --> 00:01:02.848
I'd love for both of you to tell a little bit about yourself to our listeners.

00:01:03.788 --> 00:01:10.668
Sure. Well, hello. I am very excited to get started with both of you in our podcast journey.

00:01:11.048 --> 00:01:14.328
And so, just briefly about me, I am Karen Meppen.

00:01:14.568 --> 00:01:19.788
I've been working for over 20 years in data. And what does that mean, really?

00:01:20.008 --> 00:01:25.108
I started off working in finance and found myself spending more time working

00:01:25.108 --> 00:01:29.648
on optimizing and improving my processes through technology as opposed to focusing

00:01:29.648 --> 00:01:33.148
on all the assets I was supposed to be evaluating.

00:01:33.568 --> 00:01:37.508
And that's really where I learned that I really enjoy taking the people,

00:01:37.888 --> 00:01:42.268
the processes and the technology and figuring out how to bring everyone across

00:01:42.268 --> 00:01:45.188
the finish line to meet whatever your business goals are.

00:01:45.188 --> 00:01:49.908
So I've been doing that in some version for my entire career.

00:01:49.908 --> 00:01:55.288
I'm also a fellow of information privacy, primarily because when you're working

00:01:55.288 --> 00:01:59.848
with technology, there's a lot to it more than just writing the code or putting

00:01:59.848 --> 00:02:00.768
together the infrastructure.

00:02:01.128 --> 00:02:06.008
And so that's really my sweet spot, which is understanding the technology and

00:02:06.008 --> 00:02:10.888
connecting the dots among all the different folks on the playing field, so to speak, be it.

00:02:12.057 --> 00:02:16.177
Compliance, the domain experts, and obviously the technology data teams,

00:02:16.337 --> 00:02:17.537
the software developers, et cetera.

00:02:17.877 --> 00:02:24.797
And so I think this is a really great opportunity because also I'm often on my own or leading teams.

00:02:24.977 --> 00:02:29.437
And so it's pretty rare that I get to work or to chat with other folks who do what I do.

00:02:30.057 --> 00:02:34.917
Awesome. Thanks, Karen. Junaid? Hey, everybody. So happy to be here.

00:02:35.057 --> 00:02:37.817
I was so happy to get the call from Anjali to be a part of this podcast.

00:02:38.257 --> 00:02:45.817
I am a data nerd at heart and always looking for the excuse to talk about data and AI.

00:02:46.177 --> 00:02:49.697
So really looking forward to doing this with Anjali and Karen.

00:02:50.757 --> 00:02:57.097
I couldn't be more excited about me. I have spent now almost 30 years working

00:02:57.097 --> 00:03:00.717
most of it in data, almost all of it in financial services.

00:03:00.717 --> 00:03:05.337
I have stood up large data governance programs, rolled out data quality frameworks,

00:03:05.637 --> 00:03:10.717
worked on basically through every discipline of data in the last few years,

00:03:10.877 --> 00:03:17.337
have pivoted very hard into AI and leveraging AI to improve data and data management.

00:03:17.637 --> 00:03:22.857
Very excited to talk about where our industry is going, what the new trends

00:03:22.857 --> 00:03:28.857
are, and maybe even having some debates about what we should be doing and where

00:03:28.857 --> 00:03:30.897
we should be going. So looking forward to it.

00:03:31.617 --> 00:03:35.537
Awesome. I love a good data debate. I also love a good data therapy session.

00:03:35.837 --> 00:03:38.657
Karen, do you want to talk a little bit about data therapy and how that brought us together?

00:03:39.457 --> 00:03:44.577
Of course. So we both worked at Slalom in different offices,

00:03:44.597 --> 00:03:49.337
but definitely were able to connect and bond very quickly over data therapy

00:03:49.337 --> 00:03:53.997
is really what we call being able to talk about all the different ways the data

00:03:53.997 --> 00:03:58.957
causes you pain or the folks you're working with and the challenges and really

00:03:58.957 --> 00:04:02.177
being able to come together without having to give a bunch of background.

00:04:03.217 --> 00:04:08.317
Of like, let me tell you about these lineage challenges that we're working through

00:04:08.317 --> 00:04:09.917
and frustrations you have.

00:04:09.997 --> 00:04:13.337
And so it's a really great, we call it just collectively data therapy because

00:04:13.337 --> 00:04:17.877
it is something that is so beneficial.

00:04:17.877 --> 00:04:22.237
And I always feel better, at least at the end of the conversations about just

00:04:22.237 --> 00:04:25.637
really being able to let it all hang out and talk about all the different parts

00:04:25.637 --> 00:04:29.837
of working with data and how not only affects you, but everyone else around you.

00:04:30.521 --> 00:04:36.541
What I find so funny is, you know, we usually go into a data therapy session

00:04:36.541 --> 00:04:39.701
to talk about not the good, but the bad and the ugly.

00:04:40.141 --> 00:04:44.021
But I mean, Junaid, like we've had debates about data as well.

00:04:44.261 --> 00:04:47.921
Do you find that you could benefit from a good data therapy session?

00:04:48.401 --> 00:04:53.401
Yeah, listen, I think data is very hard. Somebody once said data management

00:04:53.401 --> 00:04:56.681
or data governance isn't rocket science. It's actually much harder.

00:04:57.301 --> 00:05:04.221
And I believe it. I would say like 80% of the work that we do in data and data

00:05:04.221 --> 00:05:08.621
management AI now is very difficult just because of all the moving pieces,

00:05:09.021 --> 00:05:11.001
everything that you have to account for.

00:05:11.181 --> 00:05:14.721
And I have this joke. I say that you don't get into data for the applause and

00:05:14.721 --> 00:05:18.641
you don't get into data management for the accolades.

00:05:19.201 --> 00:05:24.341
It's very hard work. But there is this, at the end of delivering something,

00:05:24.341 --> 00:05:29.641
getting to a point where there's like a brief moment of accomplishment when

00:05:29.641 --> 00:05:31.201
you, you know, when you finish something,

00:05:31.361 --> 00:05:34.941
it's, it transfers, it's fun, but it is very, it is very hard.

00:05:35.121 --> 00:05:38.101
And a good therapy session is, I think, needed every so often.

00:05:38.581 --> 00:05:41.841
Jenae, do you want to talk a little bit about our, our origin story?

00:05:42.001 --> 00:05:46.421
I was a guest on this podcast, which is why I enjoy, now I'm enjoying being

00:05:46.421 --> 00:05:51.861
on the other side of it and talking about what we, what we saw happening in

00:05:51.861 --> 00:05:55.741
the industry, where we saw it going and having a good discussion around,

00:05:56.021 --> 00:05:58.081
from a practitioner's perspective,

00:05:58.661 --> 00:06:00.241
what I saw and where we're going.

00:06:00.461 --> 00:06:05.701
I'd like this idea of now being on this side and co-hosting on an occasional

00:06:05.701 --> 00:06:11.681
basis to talk to other practitioners and challenge them and what I've seen and

00:06:11.681 --> 00:06:13.881
what they've seen and things like that.

00:06:14.101 --> 00:06:17.061
What excites you most about where data is going today?

00:06:17.972 --> 00:06:22.412
Wow, that's quite there's there's a lot to get excited about.

00:06:22.752 --> 00:06:28.332
And I think you can look at it from a more pragmatic perspective of just what

00:06:28.332 --> 00:06:34.152
you can do or will be able to do soon that you weren't able to do just in the

00:06:34.152 --> 00:06:36.272
practice of data governance and strategy.

00:06:36.272 --> 00:06:42.912
But more, I think, what I'm excited about is just being able to become more

00:06:42.912 --> 00:06:44.412
independent of how it enables us.

00:06:44.552 --> 00:06:47.792
Usually, it's some version of when we're working in data governance,

00:06:47.992 --> 00:06:51.692
you know, bringing code switching and talking to everyone along the way.

00:06:51.832 --> 00:06:56.732
The technical folks, the business folks, a lot of the different folks that need

00:06:56.732 --> 00:06:59.452
to interact with the data along the way for their own obligations,

00:06:59.452 --> 00:07:02.972
as I mentioned, compliance or cybersecurity, things of that sort.

00:07:03.592 --> 00:07:08.672
However, really all that is to serve the needs of the business folks who really

00:07:08.672 --> 00:07:10.432
just want to be able to work with their data.

00:07:10.692 --> 00:07:18.992
And I think what I'm most excited about is really how much more accessible working,

00:07:19.232 --> 00:07:25.072
interacting with the data is and will be in the near future for those that aren't technical.

00:07:25.072 --> 00:07:30.172
And being able to close the gap where you don't need to submit an IT request

00:07:30.172 --> 00:07:36.232
or talk to a lot of folks because it is already enabled within your environment.

00:07:36.532 --> 00:07:40.072
And so there are many steps, which I'm sure we'll talk about,

00:07:40.192 --> 00:07:41.792
of what it takes to actually get there.

00:07:42.052 --> 00:07:45.092
But I think that's more attainable than it ever has been.

00:07:45.232 --> 00:07:48.332
And we can have a separate conversation about the volume of data as well,

00:07:48.452 --> 00:07:52.472
which is not, there's not less data to work with, which is a separate problem to address, right?

00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:59.100
I would say what excites me about what's coming is the not knowing of what's

00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:02.020
coming in the space of data and AI.

00:08:02.320 --> 00:08:08.080
If you told me five years ago that, you know, when I was coding a script in

00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:14.780
Python, that I could type up or through like some verbal command,

00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:21.320
talk to a chatbot about what I needed and that it would generate either Python script or SQL script.

00:08:21.320 --> 00:08:25.120
And it would give me everything I'm going to do, I don't know that I would have

00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.400
believed it. I mean, AI has been around for a long time.

00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:29.840
We know that, 60s, 70s or something.

00:08:30.700 --> 00:08:37.200
And then, you know, what's happened in the last two years is not something that I saw five years ago.

00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.780
And I can't help but wonder what other innovation is going to happen and what

00:08:43.780 --> 00:08:48.520
other technologies are going to come out to drive this. So I think the not knowing

00:08:48.520 --> 00:08:51.440
is the, it might be the most exciting part for me.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.260
What's a really cool way, Python

00:08:54.260 --> 00:08:59.200
scripts aside, that you've leveraged generative AI in your day-to-day?

00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:02.860
You know, I'll share like an interesting experience that I had recently.

00:09:02.980 --> 00:09:06.320
So I've been using ChatGPT now for a couple of years.

00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:10.620
I'm on the paid version of it. So I have some more features and functionality.

00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:13.060
And I use many other AI tools.

00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.100
But ChatGPT is the one I lean on the hardest. I use it for helping me refine

00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:19.780
emails, refine my resumes.

00:09:20.140 --> 00:09:25.980
I ask it a lot of research questions. And I feel that the tools really learned

00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:28.640
a lot about me with all the inputs that I've provided.

00:09:28.780 --> 00:09:32.080
I've shared content that I've produced from a work perspective.

00:09:32.420 --> 00:09:39.460
And I asked it a very interesting question. I asked it, how can I improve professionally

00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:45.420
and personally as a person and tell me something I don't know about myself.

00:09:47.022 --> 00:09:55.522
Without sharing the details, it was amazing in terms of its accuracy of what

00:09:55.522 --> 00:10:01.122
steps or gaps I should close because of all the LinkedIn posts that I provided,

00:10:01.542 --> 00:10:06.862
all of the resume updates that I have done through it, my areas of interest,

00:10:07.182 --> 00:10:11.582
and identifying gaps in knowledge and experience and thought leadership.

00:10:11.582 --> 00:10:16.802
It was really wonderful, like out of the box, you know, not solving for client

00:10:16.802 --> 00:10:23.042
360 or whatever, but just a nuanced sort of use case that anybody can can do.

00:10:23.622 --> 00:10:29.062
And I'll share sort of an interesting experience. Somebody else sent me their resume for feedback.

00:10:29.742 --> 00:10:34.082
So, yeah, I'd gotten a resume and ran it through through AI.

00:10:34.282 --> 00:10:35.382
Here's where it falls apart.

00:10:35.802 --> 00:10:39.882
It started treating that person's resume as my background.

00:10:40.502 --> 00:10:45.502
And so it was like, you have to really be careful with the data that you give

00:10:45.502 --> 00:10:48.142
it and, you know, putting the context around it.

00:10:48.242 --> 00:10:52.942
But that was a very interesting, a very interesting eye-opening experience.

00:10:53.442 --> 00:10:57.882
I wonder if I were to do a poll, like, what would people say?

00:10:57.922 --> 00:11:01.382
Should I follow the advice or not follow the advice that it provides?

00:11:01.462 --> 00:11:04.762
But it was an interesting experience. oh wow so

00:11:04.762 --> 00:11:08.322
i like i'm so curious because i haven't actually asked chat

00:11:08.322 --> 00:11:11.762
gpt anything about myself right agree with

00:11:11.762 --> 00:11:17.142
what you got back as results in terms of like blind spots or gaps to close or

00:11:17.142 --> 00:11:20.342
things that you didn't know about yourself yeah i'll give you an example i try

00:11:20.342 --> 00:11:24.902
to post some thought leadership on on linkedin every so often it identified

00:11:24.902 --> 00:11:31.462
that i wasn't doing that enough to achieve my goal of increased followership.

00:11:31.742 --> 00:11:35.662
And I do like once every three weeks, sometimes once every five weeks.

00:11:35.802 --> 00:11:44.842
And it advised two posts per week or two articles per week for increased followership.

00:11:45.022 --> 00:11:47.082
Like I kind of laid out what I wanted to do.

00:11:47.362 --> 00:11:52.562
You have to be very smart about the prompt saying, here's what I'm aspiring for.

00:11:53.122 --> 00:11:55.862
Increased followership on LinkedIn. tell me

00:11:55.862 --> 00:11:59.382
something that I need to do professionally and personally to

00:11:59.382 --> 00:12:02.362
achieve that and you can go down a rabbit hole

00:12:02.362 --> 00:12:05.202
and so it kind of knows that you know here's a

00:12:05.202 --> 00:12:08.262
I would give it a LinkedIn post saying help me

00:12:08.262 --> 00:12:13.662
caption help me title this or give me a catchy title for something to ID on

00:12:13.662 --> 00:12:18.402
so it would it will definitely learn about you the other thing I also did was

00:12:18.402 --> 00:12:24.022
I had many hundreds or thousands of artifacts that I've produced over the years

00:12:24.022 --> 00:12:25.702
for data on my Google Drive.

00:12:26.242 --> 00:12:30.542
I was like, if I was going to write a book based on, you know,

00:12:30.582 --> 00:12:33.602
if I was going to write a book on data management based on all of these artifacts,

00:12:33.702 --> 00:12:37.282
because I've worked across all the disciplines, what would it look like?

00:12:37.342 --> 00:12:39.242
Could it construct the chapters and.

00:12:39.884 --> 00:12:42.904
Paragraphs and components of a book that I have enough.

00:12:43.444 --> 00:12:49.364
And I think it learned in that regard, my skill set and my capabilities and things like that.

00:12:49.624 --> 00:12:54.104
So it learns and it knows about you for sure.

00:12:54.304 --> 00:13:01.624
And I think it'll get to a point where you can ask it those sort of personal type questions.

00:13:02.164 --> 00:13:06.344
Oh, that is so interesting. Karen, have you ever asked CheckGPT anything about

00:13:06.344 --> 00:13:08.924
yourself? Well, I'm trying to think about how to answer that question because,

00:13:09.084 --> 00:13:10.584
well, the short answer is yes.

00:13:10.824 --> 00:13:15.804
And yes, and I've really gone down the rabbit hole as it relates to,

00:13:16.084 --> 00:13:21.044
well, one, being educated so that I can enable my own goals or what I,

00:13:21.204 --> 00:13:22.244
you know, see what's possible.

00:13:22.524 --> 00:13:28.764
However, but also to figure out how to help others and to be educated about that. Right.

00:13:28.904 --> 00:13:33.664
And so I've for quite a while been spending a lot of time in many rabbit holes.

00:13:33.664 --> 00:13:35.984
And part of that is with the prompting.

00:13:36.224 --> 00:13:42.144
And one, I think, could you ever imagine that you would be so focused on something

00:13:42.144 --> 00:13:44.964
called prompting or prompt engineering, which is basically just figuring out

00:13:44.964 --> 00:13:46.844
how to talk to like an LLM?

00:13:47.024 --> 00:13:49.804
I don't know. Sometimes I feel silly about that. But I mean,

00:13:49.944 --> 00:13:53.484
there's one thing where you're structuring, you're just asking open-ended questions.

00:13:53.484 --> 00:13:58.284
And it's another thing that I've learned, which is very comprehensive,

00:13:58.704 --> 00:14:07.864
structured for the LLM type prompts to get unique information that can be very comprehensive at best.

00:14:07.864 --> 00:14:11.084
That can be as it relates to a directed, well, like on LinkedIn,

00:14:11.084 --> 00:14:16.024
but also as it relates to like self-improvement and other options of,

00:14:16.084 --> 00:14:17.564
you know, your career trajectory.

00:14:18.004 --> 00:14:24.964
And it's just amazing what is possible when you really start optimizing the

00:14:24.964 --> 00:14:27.764
prompt engineering, you know, for open AI, let's say.

00:14:28.324 --> 00:14:34.084
Or chatGPT, that that's an art unto itself for what it can yield.

00:14:34.084 --> 00:14:38.024
And I think that's really what I think is kind

00:14:38.024 --> 00:14:40.804
of the gap that most people who are just starting

00:14:40.804 --> 00:14:43.684
off don't even understand of like what's

00:14:43.684 --> 00:14:48.504
possible is only limited by how how much you want to get into it and it's and

00:14:48.504 --> 00:14:54.544
I think that's really what I've learned a lot myself which is how to improve

00:14:54.544 --> 00:14:58.644
a lot of the prompts about you know every realm of your life as it relates to

00:14:58.644 --> 00:15:01.184
like supporting my kids or like jeez,

00:15:01.284 --> 00:15:05.804
I don't even know what I need to do as it relates to helping them on a particular topic of, you know,

00:15:05.904 --> 00:15:10.584
giving a structured prompt about their homework or how to get them out of a rut. We're like,

00:15:11.239 --> 00:15:15.699
My son really is not into doing his spelling, practicing each week.

00:15:15.859 --> 00:15:19.499
And so taking into account like his learning style, his age,

00:15:19.659 --> 00:15:27.139
you know, and also just other parts that influence learning and how to engage him.

00:15:27.259 --> 00:15:30.939
And the response I got was like, wow, I wonder why I haven't been doing this earlier, right?

00:15:31.659 --> 00:15:37.099
I think that's a very interesting use case is like, how do I leverage this technology

00:15:37.099 --> 00:15:44.919
to manage a rambunctious five-year-old? It might be my next experiment.

00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.119
It's a slippery slope, I'll tell you. I want to start doing that.

00:15:49.359 --> 00:15:54.899
And then the counterpoint from a privacy standpoint is just being cautious about what you share.

00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:59.259
Because once you hit the submit button, it's gone and forever.

00:15:59.459 --> 00:16:04.299
You can't get it back. And it's going to be available forever and ever.

00:16:04.659 --> 00:16:09.779
So much of what we do is not just work-related. It isn't just data.

00:16:09.939 --> 00:16:13.919
So tell us a little bit about, just about yourselves outside of work. What do you like to do?

00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:18.079
So I have two kids, seven and just turned 10.

00:16:18.459 --> 00:16:22.559
And so I live in Las Vegas. So no, I don't live on the strip.

00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:28.959
I live in a suburban neighborhood near the Red Rocks, which is really great to spend time outside.

00:16:28.959 --> 00:16:34.139
I think that's what's lesser known about being in Southern Nevada is just what

00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:42.419
is just around for you to explore and hike. and also just going to Little League games with my.

00:16:43.161 --> 00:16:47.101
For my son's team, and then really focusing on having quality time with the

00:16:47.101 --> 00:16:49.881
kids, spending a lot of time in the kitchen.

00:16:50.041 --> 00:16:57.421
And hot tip, it's interesting what you can put in for prompts and open AI for coming up with recipes.

00:16:57.981 --> 00:17:04.101
It could be a little bit nerve wracking, especially if you have a big meal you're preparing your meal.

00:17:04.301 --> 00:17:10.401
If it's basic things like eggs or other things that have really gone up in price

00:17:10.401 --> 00:17:14.881
or are scarce in whatever it is you're having for a Friday night.

00:17:16.541 --> 00:17:19.061
So Janine, what about you? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:17:19.721 --> 00:17:22.701
Well, you know, the only thing I could do in the kitchen is open a refrigerator

00:17:22.701 --> 00:17:24.481
and put something in a microwave.

00:17:24.801 --> 00:17:29.961
So I have no skill set there and I don't think AI can help me in any capacity there.

00:17:30.461 --> 00:17:35.441
You know, it's funny. Before my son was born, I was an avid mountain biker.

00:17:35.961 --> 00:17:39.401
I loved motorcycling. I've done a cross-country motorcycle trip,

00:17:39.561 --> 00:17:40.961
which is very memorable.

00:17:41.241 --> 00:17:44.741
I love all sports. I play a lot of basketball and soccer.

00:17:45.101 --> 00:17:48.881
I will say since my son has been born, I do everything with him.

00:17:49.421 --> 00:17:54.841
My life seems to revolve around him swimming after work with him, soccer with him.

00:17:55.281 --> 00:18:00.261
I think I'm a chauffeur now. I chauffeur him around all over the place.

00:18:00.461 --> 00:18:02.361
And I enjoy every minute of it.

00:18:03.061 --> 00:18:08.961
Enjoy being a dad. Enjoy spending time with him. and hopefully raising a good person.

00:18:09.801 --> 00:18:16.041
All right, both. Well, thank you for taking the time to introduce yourselves to our listeners.

00:18:16.401 --> 00:18:19.321
And I am looking forward to what this season brings us.